Honor

Blackfive asks:

What do you think about our honor?

For me honor is doing the right thing when the TV cameras are turned off.  Whether you are rewarded or punished for your actions....

The American Soldier works in a realm where few if any laws exist but the ones they bring in with them. Often there is no one to force order and law upon yourself but you. The people you interact with, either civilians or enemy will learn the definition of American honor from your.  So thats the seriousness of what happened at Abu Graib.  How evil the enemy has been is not as important as how good you are.  And it's notable that some of the loudest critics of Gitmo and some of President Bush's policies have been elements of the military own justice system. It's a heavy burden for soldiers to bear. Not only do you have to always make the right and just decision, you often have only fractions of a second in which to make that choice.  So errors in judgment will happen. I will also point out that it is statistically impossible to send 250 thousand people even to Disneyland without their being a few nuts in the mix. Add to that the pressure of combat and the risk of problems becomes greater.  People who would never do things as a civilian can lose it in wartime.  It's part of the cost of war. Thats part of why war is an ugly thing.  Not just because of what you must do to others, but because of the cost to yourself.

There has been talk of how abusing prisoners doesn't really help gather usable intelligence anyway.  But even if it did that wouldn't matter.  It wouldn't be worth it. Yes, even at the cost of American lives.  We are the guys in the White Hat.  Americans purposely choose to live in a risky experiment called a democracy, rather than running a nice efficient and secure tyranny. 

In many respects the Iraqis had much more security under Saddam than they do now.  But they didn't have freedom.  And as Americans we accept that freedom always carries an element of risk.  Terrorists will attack America again, and they will quite possibly succeed by taking advantage of our open and free society.  But if we choose to curtail freedom in the name of security we lose more than our lives.

This is why I'm against torturing prisoners, or even "stressing" them.  This is why I'm against outsourcing prisoners to countries with more lax torture standards.  And this is why I'm against holding an American citizen without charge and designating him an enemy combatant, thereby throwing him into a black hole. Yeah, he's most likely guilty, but these are just not powers I trust any Government to have. Not even mine.  Even at the cost of my life. 

I can understand the need for Gitmo in the beginning. It's true that terrorists are in a sort of special category of criminals. We do not have the elements in place in our justice system to deal with them.  But it's been almost five years since 9-11, we should have those elements in place now.  That is what Congress should have been working on instead of their reelection campaigns.  That should be remedied and Gitmo should be shut down. 

As long as it's open, those terrorists will never really face American justice.  What they may get might much better than what they themselves would give to us if the positions were reversed, but still they do not face real and true justice. And that's just not the American way.

For E Pluribus Mudville.

Comments

[Gerry]

I say rip thier nails out . Read this:



Jun. 13, 2005 War on Terror Transformation News Products Press Resources Images Websites Contact Us

U.S. Department of Defense
Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Public Affairs)
News Release


On the Web:
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2005/nr20050612-3661.html
Media contact: +1 (703) 697-5131 Public contact:
http://www.dod.mil/faq/comment.html
or +1 (703) 428-0711

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No. 592-05
IMMEDIATE RELEASE June 12, 2005

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Guantanamo Provides Valuable Intelligence Information
In response to recent media interest and the disclosure of a classified interrogation log from Guantanamo, the following information is provided.
The compromised classified interrogation log is in reference to a single individual, Mohamed al Kahtani, a detainee believed to be the intended 20th Hijacker in the 9/11 attack that killed more than 3,000 innocent people and injured countless others. He was captured on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border after fleeing the fighting in Tora Bora. In February 2002, due to his affiliation with al-Qaida, he was transported to Guantanamo for detention.

He is an al-Qaida operative with strong ties to senior al-Qaida leadership, including Osama Bin Laden. He trained at terrorist camps in Afghanistan and tried to enter the U.S. in August 2001. His attempt to enter the U.S. from the Middle East on a one-way airline ticket and $2,800 in cash was foiled by immigration officials at the Orlando International Airport. Instead of meeting Mohamed Atta, the lead September 11th hijacker who was waiting for him at the airport, Kahtani returned to the Middle East. Had Kahtani succeeded in entering the U.S., it is believed he would have been on United Airlines Flight 93, the only hijacked aircraft that had four hijackers instead of five.

The interrogation of Kahtani has enabled the Department of Defense to gain a clear picture of Kahtani’s strong connection to al-Qaida leadership to include Osama Bin Laden. For example, while Kahtani repeatedly offered various cover stories ranging from claims of being in Afghanistan to buy falcons to claims he was coming to the U.S. to buy a used car, interrogations were able to uncover the truth.

Kahtani’s interrogation during this period was guided by a very detailed plan and conducted by trained professionals motivated by a desire to gain actionable intelligence, to include information that might prevent additional attacks on America.

To understand Kahtani’s interrogation, it is important to remember the post-9/11 environment during this period.

There had just been anthrax attacks in the U.S. in December of 2001.
Richard Reid tried to blow up a U.S. airliner with a shoe bomb.
Over the spring and summer, there were deadly attacks in Tunisia and Pakistan.
In October 2002 al-Qaida leader Ayman Zawahiri released a tape recording stating “God willing, we will continue targeting the keys of the American economy.”
In September and October, the FBI broke up the Lackawana Six cell in New York.
On October 6, 2002, al-Qaida attacked a French oil tanker off the coast of Yemen, an attack that harkened back to the killing of 17 service members on the USS Cole.
On October 8, 2002, al-Qaida gunmen shot and killed a US Marine in Kuwait.
On October 12, 2002, al-Qaida affiliate Jemaah Islamiya bombed a nightclub in Bali, Indonesia, killing more than 200 and injuring about 300.
On November 28, 2002, al-Qaida fired two anti aircraft missiles at a Boeing 757 aircraft flying from Mombassa, Kenya to Israel; suicide bombers also attacked the Paradise Hotel in Mombassa, Kenya killing 15 and injuring 40.
On December 30, 2002, three U.S. citizens were killed in Yemen during an attack on Baptist Missionary Hospital.
The United States was clearly a country on high alert during this period and Kahtani -- a known al-Qaida terrorist -- was being held at Guantanamo and was believed to possess information essential to preventing future terrorist attacks. Using approved and monitored interrogation approaches, including additional authorities approved by the Department of Defense in December 2002, Kahtani admitted he had been lying. He also admitted:

He had been sent to the U.S. by Khalid Sheik Mohamed, the lead architect of the 9/11 attack;
That he had met Osama Bin Laden on several occasions;
That he had received terrorist training at two al-Qaida camps;
That he had been in contact with many senior al-Qaida leaders.
More importantly, he provided valuable intelligence information helping the U.S. to understand the recruitment of terrorist operatives, logistics, and other planning aspects of the 9/11 terrorist attack. He also provided information that:

Clarified Jose Padilla’s and Richard Reid’s relationship with al-Qaida and their activities in Afghanistan
Provided infiltration routes and methods used by al-Qaida to cross borders undetected
Explained how Osama Bin Laden evaded capture by U.S. forces, as well as provided important information on his health
Provided detailed information about 30 of Osama Bin Laden’s bodyguards who are also held at Guantanamo
Guantanamo houses enemy combatants ranging from terrorist trainers and recruiters to bomb makers, would-be suicide bombers and terrorist financiers. Guantanamo provides a strategic interrogation center where enemy combatants can be questioned and where the results of those interrogations has undoubtedly produced information that has saved the lives of U.S. and coalition forces in the field as well as thwarted threats posed to innocent citizens in this country and abroad.

The Department of Defense remains committed to the unequivocal standard of humane treatment for all detainees, and Kahtani’s interrogation plan was guided by that strict standard. The very fact that an interrogation log exists is evidence his interrogation proceeded according to a very detailed plan, which was conducted by trained professionals in a controlled environment, with active supervision and oversight.

When there have been credible allegations of abuse they are investigated aggressively and individuals are held accountable for their actions.

Guantanamo is also a facility under constant external oversight and supervision. The department works closely with the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and representatives visit detainees in our charge at their discretion. There have been 187 members of Congress and congressional staff who have visited Guantanamo to include 11 Senators, 77 Representatives and 99 Congressional staff members. There have also been some 400 media visits consisting of more than 1,000 national and international journalists.

The Department of Defense does not wish to hold detainees longer than necessary and effective processes are in place to regularly review the status of enemy combatants. More than 68,000 detainees have been held in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo and the vast majority of them have been released. There are only approximately 520 detainees in custody in Guantanamo. While more than 200 detainees have departed Guantanamo, detainee releases or transfers are not without risks. There have been approximately a dozen former detainees who were released from Guantanamo and have since taken part in anti-Coalition activities.

The Enemy Combatant Status Review Board was a formal review of all the information related to a detainee to determine whether the individual meets the criteria to be designated an enemy combatant. Every detainee at Guantanamo has been evaluated against those criteria. Additionally, an Annual Review Board periodically assesses whether an individual should be released, transferred or continued to be detained based on threat or continued intelligence value.

The joint team at Guantanamo, including military and civilian men and women, supports a vital mission guarding known terrorists. This mission includes extended separations from their families, and requires a great deal of dedication and professionalism necessary to carry out this important part of the ongoing war on terrorism.

These interrogation logs are classified for security reasons; however, Kahtani’s interrogation is one of the subjects of the FBI e-mails that U.S. Southern Command is investigating in the Schmidt-Furlow investigation ordered by General Craddock, the Combatant Commander at SOUTHCOM. Additionally, the Department of Defense has notified the relevant committees of Congress of this latest information. A classified briefing was also provided to the HASC and SASC staff on the logs in March.

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Updated: 12 Jun 2005

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[Blackfive]

Nice post.